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Xerxes Feroze
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Posted - 2013.07.13 23:08:00 -
[1] - Quote
Personally, as an Eve player, it is BS that we cannot fire unless the ground team accumulates so many war points. We are not part of the game, but rather we just facilitate "Call of Duty" style rewards for killing a large number of people. If you want me to give a darn about providing support it needs to work more along the lines of when I arrive at the planet I contact the peole in dust and they paint a target/give me a code. I fire immediatly, regardless of their WP total. I am there to turn the tide of battle, not to keep the winning team in the high seats. Let me shoot when I arrive so I feel like I am actually doing something! You could add a cooldown or a sensor reclairation time or some kind of other B.S., excuse to prevent me from shooting constantly. Even a "Lock on Time" of a couple minutes might be intersting, because it would make me vulnerable to attacks rom other ships . But either way I should be able to fire at my enemies so long as they do not have emplacements or allies in space to stop me! Doing it based on War Points is unfair to the players of Eve! |
Xerxes Feroze
Vanguard Unlimited
4
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Posted - 2013.07.14 00:08:00 -
[2] - Quote
Behronzo wrote:Xerxes Feroze wrote:Personally, as an Eve player, it is BS that we cannot fire unless the ground team accumulates so many war points. We are not part of the game, but rather we just facilitate "Call of Duty" style rewards for killing a large number of people. If you want me to give a darn about providing support it needs to work more along the lines of when I arrive at the planet I contact the peole in dust and they paint a target/give me a code. I fire immediatly, regardless of their WP total. I am there to turn the tide of battle, not to keep the winning team in the high seats. Let me shoot when I arrive so I feel like I am actually doing something! You could add a cooldown or a sensor reclairation time or some kind of other B.S., excuse to prevent me from shooting constantly. Even a "Lock on Time" of a couple minutes might be intersting, because it would make me vulnerable to attacks rom other ships . But either way I should be able to fire at my enemies so long as they do not have emplacements or allies in space to stop me! Doing it based on War Points is unfair to the players of Eve! Although I agree completely with what you're saying I can tell you why it will never happen. CCP doesn't want the Dust battles to be completely decided by players in EvE. If you have the ability to just constantly bombard a planet then Dust mercs who don't have EvE support have no chance of winning the game. I suggest that maybe the WP requirement be lowered. Because if you add a longer cooldown/locktime, the match will be over before you get another chance to bombard the planet. I was hoping for the ability to bombard a planet non-stop myself (I'm an EvE player as well), but it wouldn't be fair for players who can't provide the EvE support they'd need to win the battle up top. Allowing for EvE players to have constant bombardment skills give them all of the power and I think CCP wants the Dust mercs to be worth more to EvE players rather than the other way around.
About CCP, I disagree, I think they would be smartest to make Merc And Corp battles recieve a LOT more support from eve because it would lead to massive battles as people try to prevent other people from bombarding the planet. This in turn would lead to tons of deaths in orbit which means lots more isk dissappearing, and therefore more profit for CCP. I took my legion out last night, fully modded, practicall a billion isk. To replace it would be 2 plex (about $40 right now). Put THAT in perspective and you can see why CCP would be best off ALLOWING this kind of stuff to happen, but encouraging things like a "Lock Time" in which the ship cannot move/fire and therefore is vulnerable.
I'm fine keeping the WP totals for Instant Matches though, THAT makes perfect sense. But in Merc and Corp battles where the POINT is to interact, it should NOT go off of WP.
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Xerxes Feroze
Vanguard Unlimited
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Posted - 2013.07.14 00:41:00 -
[3] - Quote
You have never played eve then. Plus I'm saying to have a concrete cooldown built into the player's guns. Compromise. You only got so many OBs because u were not relying on players in space. I assure you there are few players in space equipped to care, and with a lock on time that made you vulnerable ou would never see such a thing unless fighting goonswarm. |
Xerxes Feroze
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5
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Posted - 2013.07.14 01:18:00 -
[4] - Quote
Maken Tosch wrote:Xerxes Feroze wrote:You have never played eve then. Plus I'm saying to have a concrete cooldown built into the player's guns. Compromise. You only got so many OBs because u were not relying on players in space. I assure you there are few players in space equipped to care, and with a lock on time that made you vulnerable ou would never see such a thing unless fighting goonswarm.
Our ships take months to replace, your dropsuits take matches. We do not risk them lightly. LOL@Never playing Eve I still play the internet spaceship game like it's serious business, bro. And I have been playing since 2008.
You obviously don't fly Carriers then, jackass. Orbital Bombers need support. We can't carpet bomb yet (different thread) but someday.....
And I do also like the idea of painting the target. Perhaps you must continue to paint while the people in orbit lock on? 1-2 minutes of vulnerability on both sides? |
Xerxes Feroze
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Posted - 2013.07.14 04:00:00 -
[5] - Quote
Kane Fyea wrote:Alana Krieger wrote:Kane Fyea wrote:No. That is all. Uncreative and simple minded. You obviously need to go back to playing call of Dusty because Dust is supposed to be different from your average shooter. They want the two games to intermingle, let us do something while we're sitting in space waiting mercs to accumulate WP so as to use our ship to call an OB. The purpous of the integration is to get people involved on both sides. Let us feel like we are actually doing something rather than sitting arounnd waiting to be used. You don't uderstand. Eve is pay to play. And it takes months to earn ships worth a damn. We risk those ships every time we undock them. Its unfair that in such risk we can;t even put them to use. Orbital Strikes were meant to turn the tide of battle. If it is based on WP, then the tide will only grow stronger in its current direction. I like how you called me a CoD fanboy because I said No. Also the reason why I left a short message is because that's all I needed to say. Also I like the WP limit. It gives a sense of accomplishment instead of just giving you one for just being in the game. I like to feel accomplished when I send down a strike upon the enemies that can one hit kill anyone in it. Just giving it just sounds stupid. (Also you don't only earn WP through kills you know)
You are a ****** or something sir. Your statement has nothing to do with what I was talking about. You obviously do not understand that DUST interlinks to EVE. I was complaining about how in EVE there is no reason for me to risk my billion isk ship waiting for some CoD/BF/etc fanboy to rack up the points to call in an orbital bombardment and smile. You selfish ignorent prick. That Orbital bombardment is not coming from YOU in DUST, it is coming from ME in EVE. "I SHOT THE [planet]..."
My complaint was that it is no fun for me IN EVE to literally wait for you to rack up enough WP to take credit for me risking my ship in orbit so you can brag about how you are awesome to your little buddies cuz you landed a triple kill with MY lasers. Alright? We on the same page yet? Did you actually read this? Stop trolling/being a jerk and think about what dust is SUPPOSED to be. Which is a game that has two games in one univers (oh, is that what "ne Universe One War" means? YES. THAT IS WHAT IT MEANS).
I was sayign I have NO REASON to let you DUST BUNNIES go ahead and FIRE MEH LAZAZ and think you did all the work. I want to be the one to actually shoot, not just be the one who's presence ALLOWS you to shoot.
AGAIN I'm asking that tactical ammunition gets a -100% velocity modifier added to its description/effects, and an activation delay of about 120-180 seconds (perhaps you could make a skill to reduce this?) This time period would represent the ship coming to a stop, locking in on the coordinates, and calculating the proper trajectory it should use due to atmospheric conditions/composition, the speed of the planet and its rotation, gravity, etc. Since I will have stopped moving, and all my guns will be in use this will make me vulerable (IN EVE IN CASE YOU STILL HAVN'T GOTTEN IT). This means I will have to rely on my allies to cover me in non orbital bombardment ships. Since currently tactical ammo can only be fit on "Small" guns this means frigs and dessys would be the ones to fire, which are often very fragile (although I could see an abbadon givving up a high slot or two for some OB lasers). With all this in mind let us fire at will as many times as peole will paint targets. Anybody who plays eve knows on average there will not be more than 4-10 ships in orbit and of them only 1-3 might be equipped to OB. The rest are support/defense. Turn friendly fire on so people are not stupid about painting, and make the painter a limited ammo item people have to equip. Bam. Done. I can have fun on both sides.
ALSO, keep the WP system for instant matches. It does a good job of compensating for people not being there IRL/IE.
Besides. As I recall they planned on adding planetary guns to shoot eve pilots, as well as shields to protect you from orbital strikes.If the system doesn;t change you can bet your butt I am not going to wait 20 minutes while under fire and at risk of a gank just so you can brag about your stupid triple kill.
Now, does anyone have any useful, nonignorent insight? That is to say is there anyone who has been on both sides of the OB and is actually qualified to commentate? |
Xerxes Feroze
Vanguard Unlimited
9
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Posted - 2013.07.15 23:17:00 -
[6] - Quote
Kador Ouryon wrote:Xerxes Feroze wrote:Personally, as an Eve player, it is BS that we cannot fire unless the ground team accumulates so many war points. We are not part of the game, but rather we just facilitate "Call of Duty" style rewards for killing a large number of people. If you want me to give a darn about providing support it needs to work more along the lines of when I arrive at the planet I contact the peole in dust and they paint a target/give me a code. I fire immediatly, regardless of their WP total. I am there to turn the tide of battle, not to keep the winning team in the high seats. Let me shoot when I arrive so I feel like I am actually doing something! You could add a cooldown or a sensor reclairation time or some kind of other B.S., excuse to prevent me from shooting constantly. Even a "Lock on Time" of a couple minutes might be intersting, because it would make me vulnerable to attacks rom other ships . But either way I should be able to fire at my enemies so long as they do not have emplacements or allies in space to stop me! Doing it based on War Points is unfair to the players of Eve! YES this is what should be happening.... OB's shouldn't be about one teams doing well...they should be about one team being more connected/ richer than another.
Exactly what I am saying. how am I supposed to "Support" my team from space if I have to wait till they start winning? We had a 6 vs 15 groundside match the other day, and while I had a fleet of 10 guys in space, and nobody from the other team showed up, I couldn't do ANYTHING to help my guys down below because they were getting slaughtered so bad. We had all the resources we needed, we just wern;t allowed to use them.
What was the oint of me going into low sec to risk my ships then? I wasn't able to make any difference at all with the current mechanics! Our guys didn't lose THAT bad and a couple of OBs (only two of our ships were equipped for OB) might have actually allowed us to win.
And as I said before, don;t abolish the WP system, keep it in instant mode, it works great to compesate for the fact that nobody is actually up there, just give me a chance to do something in EVE CCP. Take my isk darn it! |
Xerxes Feroze
Vanguard Unlimited
14
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Posted - 2013.07.16 01:35:00 -
[7] - Quote
Mobius Wyvern wrote:Xerxes Feroze wrote:Personally, as an Eve player, it is BS that we cannot fire unless the ground team accumulates so many war points. We are not part of the game, but rather we just facilitate "Call of Duty" style rewards for killing a large number of people. If you want me to give a darn about providing support it needs to work more along the lines of when I arrive at the planet I contact the peole in dust and they paint a target/give me a code. I fire immediatly, regardless of their WP total. I am there to turn the tide of battle, not to keep the winning team in the high seats. Let me shoot when I arrive so I feel like I am actually doing something! You could add a cooldown or a sensor reclairation time or some kind of other B.S., excuse to prevent me from shooting constantly. Even a "Lock on Time" of a couple minutes might be intersting, because it would make me vulnerable to attacks rom other ships . But either way I should be able to fire at my enemies so long as they do not have emplacements or allies in space to stop me! Doing it based on War Points is unfair to the players of Eve! Actually, I kind of liked the system they used for the tournament. You have the satellite act like the capture bunkers for Faction Warfare, and you have to hold it for 30 seconds each time before you can drop a strike. I mean, part of the reason support is one-sided now is because it isn't even worth it to call in anyone to defend you. The enemy can only drop a strike when they have enough WP, and the only strikes we have available don't really have much going for them compared to the free one in the eyes of Dust players. I like the idea of EVE support being a serious threat, not a killstreak bonus.
That last part is EXACTLY what i am talking about. And you are right. When we do OB now we sit in a deep safe and wait for points to get close to wracking up then we warp in, hit and run. We are not in danger so their whole original idea is kinda smacked down.
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Xerxes Feroze
Vanguard Unlimited
17
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Posted - 2013.07.17 20:43:00 -
[8] - Quote
Mobius Wyvern wrote:Xerxes Feroze wrote:Mobius Wyvern wrote:Xerxes Feroze wrote:Personally, as an Eve player, it is BS that we cannot fire unless the ground team accumulates so many war points. We are not part of the game, but rather we just facilitate "Call of Duty" style rewards for killing a large number of people. If you want me to give a darn about providing support it needs to work more along the lines of when I arrive at the planet I contact the peole in dust and they paint a target/give me a code. I fire immediatly, regardless of their WP total. I am there to turn the tide of battle, not to keep the winning team in the high seats. Let me shoot when I arrive so I feel like I am actually doing something! You could add a cooldown or a sensor reclairation time or some kind of other B.S., excuse to prevent me from shooting constantly. Even a "Lock on Time" of a couple minutes might be intersting, because it would make me vulnerable to attacks rom other ships . But either way I should be able to fire at my enemies so long as they do not have emplacements or allies in space to stop me! Doing it based on War Points is unfair to the players of Eve! Actually, I kind of liked the system they used for the tournament. You have the satellite act like the capture bunkers for Faction Warfare, and you have to hold it for 30 seconds each time before you can drop a strike. I mean, part of the reason support is one-sided now is because it isn't even worth it to call in anyone to defend you. The enemy can only drop a strike when they have enough WP, and the only strikes we have available don't really have much going for them compared to the free one in the eyes of Dust players. I like the idea of EVE support being a serious threat, not a killstreak bonus. That last part is EXACTLY what i am talking about. And you are right. When we do OB now we sit in a deep safe and wait for points to get close to wracking up then we warp in, hit and run. We are not in danger so their whole original idea is kinda smacked down. Exactly. If you think about, even when the ground installations that can fire back at us are made usable, they would barely have enough time to shoot before we hit F1 and run. It doesn't have to be 30 seconds, if the concern is about spamming, it could be 60 or 90 seconds to provide more of a respite between calldowns, and it also provides for an impatient commander spamming them as soon as the countdown is reached, which you can use against them. I think having a system where you have to sit on the satellite to "establish a link" or something of that order would lead to more incentive to use EVE players. I mean, what if we leave in the WP War Barge strike with its restriction based on points, and then adjust the EVE strikes so that you don't have that penalty? You still have to have an EVE player in orbit, so they aren't free or without risk, but now you have a reason to want an EVE player working with you.
It would have to be 10/20/30 seconds or less to account for the fact that by the time the "Orbital Uplink" is thrown and then the strike hits people will be able to simply leave the area. Althoguh this could be fixed somewhat by having it have a VERY LOW scan profile, so that people don;t always know when one is dropped.
Now to prevent spamming these Uplinks would be 1 per deployment, i.e. a limited ammo restriction, and as a further precaution I'm sure us eve players would understand a pop up along the lines of "Interference from recent strike(s) prevent you from calculating an accurate firing solution for XXX Seconds" Or something less serious having to do with Scotty the docking manager's cousin? For those of you that have seen the common API error and gotten to chuckle at it (CCP DOES have a sense of humor).
Keep the WP based strikes though and have them simply come from the warbarge, and only allow the faction in controll of the satellite to use them. Eve players need to feel more involved and need to have the ability to be more involved. A strict warpoint system may have worked back before the game was linked, but if they start makign everything based on WP it will just feel like CoD and killstreaks..... Dust is supposed to be a groundbreaking new game unlike any other currently out there.... Crossing my fingers to not be dissapointed. Historically CCP has always listened tp the players and I hope they take the time to read this among the thousands of spam posts on this forum.
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Xerxes Feroze
Vanguard Unlimited
23
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Posted - 2013.07.19 02:50:00 -
[9] - Quote
TheLastAlive105 wrote:Oh ya definitely xerxes definitely so when the other team has no eve support you'll just be stomping them every single round. O ya cause EVERYONE who doesnt have an eve character or support are going to LOVE this game. Well if that happens bye bye dust, welcome back call of duty. Really dude i left that POS game for this for something new and instead you guys want to ruin it for your pleasure, well their goes CCP's dream of this game lasting another 10 years. If you have an eve pilot on standby just reduce the wp to 2000 thats what they should do.
Sir, the motto is "One Universe One War." The game was DESIGNED to interlink into eve, THAT is how it is supposed to be different. Right now it IS call of duty because you get rewarded for your damn kill streaks. If you don't like that they are finally at the point where the game is complete enough to do what it was meant to do, then go back to CoD.
And as I told the last guy, EVE isn't like that. Hard to explain, but play EVE and see for yourself. It is rare to have giant fleets in orbit around a planet for OBing. And of them only 2-3 ships actually OB, the rest are there to guard them because all the battles you guys do take place in hostile territory. To put it in perspective, imagin if each of your dropsuit fits cost you around 100 mil. Would you still play the same way? Would you still rush in carefree? Might you even cry upon death? Yeah. That is EVE.
Our ships are 100X more expensive when put to the same scale. My ships cost 1 billion isk and up, but we only make about 10-50X as much as you do in the same time frame (with some exceptions, but they are few and far between). If we lose A ship, we literally in some cases are out of commision for days, weeks, or even months.
In Eve, you need to have allies. Politics are EVERYTHING to the CEO and his officers. Corps are more than just "Clans" you join to get into the big matches. They are groups of like minded people RUN like mini governments. Governments have clashes from time to time, and Wars have casualties. Most of us look foward to Peace, and try to maintain it. Trust me when I say, sir, that you are not qualified to comment on this forum topic unless you have actually played eve for 2-6+ months. The game SHOULD and is SUPPOSED to be about who you know in Eve, or who you know that knows someone in eve, because that is just the way the Eve universe (which you are now part of) works.
ONE UNIVERSE // ONE WAR Welcome to the neighborhood, and..... beware of natural selection.
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Xerxes Feroze
Vanguard Unlimited
24
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Posted - 2013.07.19 07:29:00 -
[10] - Quote
Rumor has it there is a big patch coming in December. CCP, think we can chalk somehting like this up in it?
Lol |
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Xerxes Feroze
Vanguard Unlimited
30
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Posted - 2013.07.25 20:03:00 -
[11] - Quote
bacon blaster wrote:Guys, as much fun as spamming orbitals sounds, there is a rather painful problem: It would make everything else null and void. If you could just drop orbitals anywhere and everywhere at any time and as fast as your eve buddies could fire, what would be the point in even fighting on the ground? The team that has eve side support would simply win, no contest.
To keep this being a game that is decided by boots on the ground and not guns in the sky, there needs to be some manner of limiting this, or no one without orbital support is going to even try playing in pc.
Sir, you must not have read all of the posts. As a recap.
Factors Already in play that would limit OB spamming: 1. When you show up to OB your location gets broadcasted on the overview to everyone in system, i.e. you become a target. 2. Eve ships are MUCH HARDER TO GET than Dust Dropsuits. 3. Only Small class guns can fit OB ammunition, meaning you have little protection unless non OBing ships are guarding you, meaning a fleet will not normally consist 100% of bombers.
My changes: 1. Activating OB weapons would take 10/20/30 seconds to "Acquire a firing solution" based on ammo, and therefore based on radius of blast. With the smaller blast radius (laser OB) taking less time to still allow some level fo accuracy while the larger blast (projectile OB) taking a full 30 seconds and hybrid landing in the middle. 2. During this time you would not be able to move, (not being able to shoot is a given) meaning you are a sitting duck. 3. Ground troops would throw a piece of equipment similar to a drop uplink, but with a low scan profile, meaning it would only be visible if you were practically right on top of it. This equipment would be 1 time use per fit, with no reloads (just like drop uplinks are a 2 use with no reloads). Needing to physically be at OB location prevents spamming and gives scouts a greater level of importance. Alternately they mighty have a painting laser they need to hit a target with for a few seconds before a firing solution can begin to be calculated, or maybe they must paint it the entire time (in which case for balancing purposes the laser would need to be long range or OBs would disappear completely as nobody is going to stand point blank with a hostile tank for 30 seconds. And the long range variant would improve the role of snipers). Possibly a special kind of ammunition you can fire that acts as a homing beacon? Regardless it would require ground troops to specifically FIT for OB support, limiting greatly who can call one in and limiting his equipment for the ability to do so. 4. Friendly fire would be enabled for the OBs, lessening chance of spamming. 5. Only 3 or so OBs could take place every 5 minutes, any further OB attempts would be met with an error message saying something along the lines of "due to debris from recent strikes you are unable to calculate an accurate firing solution at this time."
SOOOOOO with all that in mind, it makes it so you don't paint a target/drop a beacon unless it is needed rather than "Hey we got some WP where should I drop this thing?" OB becomes something that can turn the tide of battle rather than embarrass an already losing team, and it makes you have to interact with the people of Eve, I.e. actually be part of the supposedly shared universe! And as long as there is some kind of limit to frequency (i.e. due to debris/ionization of the atmosphere blocking a firing solution) even with a massive army in orbit it still won't be a complete OB fest.
The main thing is, in Eve, I would like to actually DO SOMETHING once in a while when lending a hand to dust, rather than sit around and wait for you to maybe rack up WP. In my specific case I had a battle where our ground troops were outnumbered, but they had eve support (this was during a PC). We risked our ships crossing through enemy high security space to get to a battlefield in the middle of enemy controlled territory (literally a 20 minute journey) only to not be able to fire a single shot because they were getting massacred. Which is when I thought, WTF? This current system allows the winners to call in support, which they don't need, because they are already winning. So then what is the point of an OB?
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Xerxes Feroze
Vanguard Unlimited
33
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Posted - 2013.08.15 07:28:00 -
[12] - Quote
Bump |
Xerxes Feroze
Vanguard Unlimited Sovereign Stars
36
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Posted - 2013.09.22 19:27:00 -
[13] - Quote
Sweet, they are listening. More or less. However. I feel both sides should be able to OB at same time. |
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